Ungovernable Women with Portia Mount
"Ungovernable Women" (formerly The Manifista) dives into the lives and careers of extraordinary women who have redefined success on their own terms. Each episode offers a glimpse into the journeys of trailblazing women who dare to lead audacious, purpose-driven lives and the lessons they learned along the way.
Ungovernable Women with Portia Mount
Transform Your Life with Dr. Shaurice Mullins
We are living in unique and challenging times, and this conversation with Dr. Shaurice Mullins will encourage and inspire you. Hear Dr. M’s journey of transformation and learn how identifying your core values will help you make decisions. Dr. M shares her perspective on affirmations and manifestation and provides practical advice to help you live the happy and fulfilling life you want.
Have a question or comment? Email us at ungovernablewomen@gmail.com.
Book mentioned in this episode: The Invincibility Code: How to Shift the Trajectory of Your Life and Crystalize a New Reality by Dr. Shaurice Mullins.
Portia Mount on LinkedIn
Dr. Shaurice Mullins on Instagram
Dr. Shaurice Mullins on LinkedIn
Dr. Shaurice Mullins’ Website
Hi, I'm Portia Mount, creator and host of Ungovernable Women, formerly the Manifesta Podcast, the lifestyle and career podcast for aspiring women. Our new name reflects our mission to reach even more listeners with stories of women who are breaking boundaries and redefining success. I have a favor to ask you, if you haven't done so already, please rate and subscribe to the pod. Wherever you listen to your podcasts, it boosts our rankings and helps more people discover us. Thanks for tuning in. Welcome to Season 5 of Ungovernable Women, the career and lifestyle podcast for aspiring women ready to break barriers. I'm Portia Mouw and I'm thrilled to be back. We've got a new name, but our mission remains stronger than ever helping women find their purpose, lead high-impact careers and meaningful lives. This season, we'll bring you the stories of women who forged their own paths to success. It's our time to shine. Let's dive in. We are truly living in unique times right now and I cannot imagine a more timely moment to be speaking with our next guest.
Speaker 1:My guest today is Dr Charisse Mullins, known as Dr M, and she is a transformational life coach, holistic counselor and empowerment and breakthrough strategist, and we're going to get into what all of that means in our conversation and empowerment and breakthrough strategists, and we're going to get into what all of that means in our conversation. She is the founder of Count Em three successful companies, and I mean. Her story is so incredible, and through these ventures she's delivered actionable strategies that help her clients unlock new levels of access, leadership and financial freedom, and so we will also link to her website in the show notes so you can connect with her. She's got some amazing books and products, and you'll get a chance to invite you to take a look at those. Her latest book is called the Invincibility Code. Love that name how to Shift the Trajectory of your Life and Crystallize a New Reality. She's helped countless people get out of their own way and align with their true purpose. She's been featured in major media outlets, including Forbes magazine, and broadcast outlets including CBS, abc and NBC. Welcome, dr M.
Speaker 2:Hello, hello. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited about being here with you today.
Speaker 1:I am so happy to have you here. You know, in the green room we were just talking a little bit about just the very unique times that we're living in, both challenging the challenges and opportunities. But before we dive into all of that, I wanted to start with talking to you about transformation and empowerment. I think those words are used a lot these days, but you have lived it, you understand it at a DNA level. So what was the turning point in your own life that led you down this path of helping others evolve and step into their power?
Speaker 2:One thing I want to say is when you're a giver, you're always giving to others. What happens when the giver needs someone to give to them?
Speaker 1:Say that again.
Speaker 2:What happens when you're always empowering others, you're always giving to others and there's no one there to give to you. So that was the turning point for me. I went through a point in my life where I lost everything. I was going through divorce. I lost everything. I went from not worrying about the price tags on things to literally sleeping on the floor with my children trying to figure out you know, basically trying to figure out what I was going to do with my life. So at that point I realized that giving is a good thing, but you have to give to yourself first.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I think, as women, we forget that right, especially as women and as Black women, like we're used to doing for others, but women, but all women, and as Black women, we do it a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we do it a lot, we also. We do that because we're taught that when you give, you're going to get more in return. But what you have to learn is you have to learn the wisdom in giving, and so that was my turning point. I'd given away everything that I had, I'd given every ounce of my energy, and when I needed someone to give to me, there I was looking to the left and the right and there was no one there, oh my God. And so that was my turning point. My turning point was understanding that it's okay to give, but you teach people around you how to treat you.
Speaker 1:Say that again. We're about to have a sermon. Everyone here, in case you haven't noticed, we're about to like. It's going to be a sermon that we're jumping into here.
Speaker 2:You teach people how to treat you. So if you teach them, you come second. You're going to always come second and that's going to be the norm that you come second. So my the point where my transformation came was rock bottom. How do I give to myself the way that I've given to others? And that was a lesson in itself.
Speaker 1:That is so powerful and I'm curious, like so how did you, what did you do? Like, how did you, like, what did giving to yourself look like to start? Because, honestly, I think some people again some women especially don't really know. It's not just going to get a manicure. That we're talking about, right, we're not talking about a spa day. That's not what you're talking about, I don't think.
Speaker 2:No, when I'm talking about giving to yourself, I'm talking about the understanding of what you really are and your uniqueness. What I mean is, when I talk about this, I'm talking about what do you really like? That's a question that I wasn't able to answer At first. I know it sounds crazy, but I could not.
Speaker 1:It doesn't sound crazy. I'm sitting here thinking about that. What do you really like?
Speaker 2:for example, I could not think like do I? What is my favorite color? Do I really like this tv show? Do I really like eating here? Or did I? Or did someone else tell me that this is what you should like? Do I really want to go and do this for others? Or have I been wearing this cloak of guilt? I should do this because and so what I had to come to the conclusion, you know, just come to the realization of some of the things I was doing, portia, I just didn't like it. Certain people I was hanging with and doing things for, I really didn't like them. And that's what I mean when I say who are you.
Speaker 2:Your transformation comes when you can look yourself in the mirror and say you have been being fake, you haven't been being real with yourself. And if you can't do this with yourself, there's no way you can be authentic with other people. There's no way you can be authentic with other people. And it's nothing wrong with looking in the mirror saying I don't know who I am. I really do not know who I am. I don't know where to go from. Here. I got an idea of the things that I like. I think I know why I'm here but I really don't know, and I think that transformation is about coming to that understanding and it being okay, not needing the approval of someone else to tell you. You know, if you do this, I think you'll be okay. No, but what about those times when you come in and you're going against the grain? Especially, as you know as a Black woman, you go against the grain a lot.
Speaker 1:We do Like. Whether we're trying to or not, oftentimes it's just what happens.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we go against the grain because we're told that this should be this way and we're looking at well, a little bit of innovation could be here. This could be a little different, that could be a little different. But when you're taught that you're better when you're quiet, You're better when you don't, you know you don't come with all this stuff, all of these ideas. Just be quiet.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Just fit in, Exactly so. I think transformation and empowerment is about understanding that maybe I was sent not to fit in. Maybe I'm here to stand out. Maybe I'm here to help drop something in somebody's mind that they didn't think about before. And be okay with that. And just be okay with hey, maybe I am. Maybe it is 100 people on this journey over here, but I'm just supposed to be just one person walking this journey. Is that okay with you? Ask yourself stuff like that. Am I okay with being told I'm no longer going to be invited to the in-crowd parties?
Speaker 1:Maybe not. What I'm struck by is that in that self-discovery, you shed a lot of old things, right, you shed old beliefs. You shed, maybe, people you thought were your friends. Maybe you even shed family members who don't accept the person you are becoming. The more you become yourself, the more you may have to shed some people and things along the way. Did you experience that, and is that something that's common with the clients that you work with?
Speaker 2:Oh my God. Of course I experienced it because I'm from North Carolina, I'm from the Bible Belt, so when I started experiencing that maybe I'm more spiritual than religious, maybe I'm more I want to seek you know what God is, rather than being told how or what God is to me.
Speaker 1:That is not very Southern at all, Charisse. I say this as a Californian also living here in the South.
Speaker 2:That is not very Southern at all, it is not very Southern and so you find yourself losing a lot of friends. You find yourself in a position where people feel like, hey, you're going off a beaten path. I even had someone to tell me oh my God, are you possessed? Is everything okay with you? Yeah, it just got really serious and I said you know what?
Speaker 2:I think I need to step outside of this to find out who I really am, because I've been in this realm since I was five years old, being preached to, being talked to about how I should act, who I should hang with, what I should dress, what I should say and all of that. And when I sat back and thought about it, I said it could be and I know this may be a harsh word it could be a little cultish for someone to tell you what you should be thinking, how you should be thinking it, giving you check boxes of approvals of if you're good enough. So what it instilled in me is just a spirit of unworthiness. For so many years I was just. I felt unworthy of the goodness that life had to offer me.
Speaker 1:That like hits me in my chest so hard to say that I think that would resonate with so many listeners too.
Speaker 2:You grow up with this and you carry this weight on your shoulder that I'm really not worthy and, no matter what I do, it's never going to be good enough, and you don't realize how that impacts everything you do. So if you're looking for success in something and deep down you really don't believe you're worthy of it, you're not going to manifest it, no matter how hard you try.
Speaker 1:And how could you right, and I can imagine too this like feeling of unworthiness then translates into like we're always trying to please other people, we're trying to make ourselves likable, lovable, worthy of it's. So it's external right, and what I'm hearing you say is we start by getting to know ourselves, understanding who we are, and sometimes it's as fundamental as, like what do I like? Do I really like all these things I've been doing? Do I really like to do them, or is it something that I've been told or I've just gone along because that was the easy thing to do? And so what I'm hearing you say is you have to really fundamentally challenge some of your core beliefs. Sometimes, if you don't really understand, if you can't answer the question who am I Like? What do I like? You got to start with the basics first.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you start with a basis of aligning your values. In my book, the Invincibility Code, I talk about my top 12 values. Now, they don't have to be in the same order as mine, but you definitely have to identify your core values so that you can adjust your actions. If you don't know your core values, you're going to live by someone else's Amen to that. You're going to live by someone else's values, and so it's not about is something wrong with the Bentley or the Lexus? Yeah, it's about identifying. Why do I want the Bentley or the Lexus? Why does this resonate with me more than it resonates with you? And that's the problem. We have other people's preferences because we don't know what our values are, and so when I start aligning mine, I realized that happiness was a top value of mine, integrity was number two, freedom was number three. I had been trapped so long I didn't realize that I wasn't happy because I didn't have a sense of freedom in my life.
Speaker 1:You don't even know what freedom was. You don't know what freedom is right.
Speaker 2:When you're being dick-tagged to every day of how you should act. Oh, that's deep, that's not freedom. And so when you look at freedom in everything, it should be a freedom to think, a freedom to speak, a freedom to act according to your values. And what is that? And when you identify that it makes everything in your life so much easier. I'm giving you an example, Just as an example, if you have friends and they're always asking you to do things right and you think I'm obligated to do it just because I've been knowing this person for a long time, or they're my friends, if you stop for a moment, you may realize that some of the things that you've been doing for people you don't really like doing it, we just do it because well, she's my friend and I'm obligated.
Speaker 2:No, you're not. It's okay for you to say you know what. I've been thinking about it, sarah, and I don't think I like doing it. I don't think.
Speaker 1:Do it yourself. Do it yourself, but that's big right, like it's big to. You know I can. This resonates for me so deeply because I know so many women I know I was in that camp too of like somebody asked me to do something and one. I didn't want the confrontation of saying no, but then I would say yes and I would feel kind of resentful Charisse, of like I would do it, but like my I call it my inner monologue. My inner monologue was like why am I doing this for this?
Speaker 2:You know what I?
Speaker 1:mean Like I right, and so it's like well, that's not healthy either. If I'm not doing it with joy, if I'm not doing it with a sense of openness, then why would I say, why am I saying yes to things that I really want to say no to Right? And that's the, and especially what I'm hearing you say is like but the way we can maybe circuit, we can short circuit that as getting really clear on what we and I'm a huge believer in core values as well because then all the incoming, it's easier to sort out the incoming that's coming at you, cause you'd be like yes to this, no to that. It's easier to sort out the incoming that's coming at you because you're being like yes to this, no to that, whatever, because you know where you stand. But I know so many women who are like, yeah, well, you know, I just feel like I should do it because I've always done it. And well, why, why? Why are we saying yes to all this?
Speaker 2:excuse my language shit that we don't want to do. Exactly the stuff that you really don't want to do, exactly the stuff that that that you really don't want to do. And you sit there later saying, oh my god, right, exactly.
Speaker 1:And then we're like trash talking, we're trash talking it later now. That's not aligned. That's not aligned is it?
Speaker 2:let me listen I'm talking to myself too, by the way, just so you know you know, I told someone the other day I told, I told a lady, the other woman the other day I listen, what do you think a person is doing when they're asking you to do something that you don't really want to do? And she said what do you mean? I said they're exercising their power of selfish. You haven't done it yet, so you walk away resentful because you haven't activated that power. When you activate that power, you realize oh, it's so much deliciousness and saying no to things, it's so delicious, it's like no, it is delicious.
Speaker 1:I've never heard it described that way, but it is very delicious. There's deliciousness in saying no and I'm going to this. I'm going to remember this, this part, forever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's delicious. And when you realize that, oh, I did that with no explanation, right See, sometimes, when we say no, we go, oh, because I feel guilty.
Speaker 1:Guilty. I got to. I'm going to give you the whole story about why I couldn't do it. Yes, because I feel guilty, because I feel guilty sometimes. Yes, yeah, I'm going to give you the whole story about why I couldn't do it. Yes, because I feel guilty, because I feel guilty sometimes.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, I had this conversation with my children a couple of years ago. I said going forward, when I tell you no, it's just no.
Speaker 1:It's just a no, like, I'm not going to explain it.
Speaker 2:I don't owe you an explanation. I do not.
Speaker 1:So say no without it and say no. Normalize saying no and not explaining yourself, right?
Speaker 2:Because when you look at guilt, when you look at guilt vibrationally, it's very low. To feel guilty about something is saying you're not exercising your power. Yeah, low vibration, exactly why would you feel guilty about doing something good for you?
Speaker 1:So if I tell, you no, it's not a bad thing, it's just good for me. You just have to adjust, yeah, and I get to do more of what I want to do. Right, when I say no, it allows me. Listen, this is the reframe we all need, because it is like Therese, I know you know this, but like I and even the especially the women I coach saying no is a struggle. Like we've seen the books, we've seen the articles, we all know that no is a full sentence and yet we still can't say it.
Speaker 2:We still can't do it. I was at an event and I and I did an exercise and I told the women in the room turn to the woman to your right and just say no. It was women that came up to me after the event and said I just had a problem even saying no to a stranger. Wow, I said see, this is why this exercise is so powerful If you can't say no to a stranger, to a stranger, yeah, she said. One lady told me I just could not do it.
Speaker 2:I don't even know you and I can't say no, wow, I can't say that to people that I do not know. I'm going to have a hard time gauging, helping people gauge their expectations when it comes to me the people that I know. So it's not about being right and wrong. It's about assisting people with gauging their expectations when it come to you. Yeah, that's really what it is Assisting them with gauging their expectations they should know. Well, I'm not going to ask Portia this because I already know she's probably going to.
Speaker 1:That is deep right as opposed to. I'm gonna ask portia because I know at least she'll say when everybody else tells me no, I know she's never gonna say no to me exactly and that that was.
Speaker 2:It was a turning point for me to transformationally, financially, having to adjust to people doing whatever they wanted to do with their finances and being calling you saying can you assist me? I had to say no, I'm okay with you not having what you need, because you made a choice to do what you wanted to do with your finances. And now you want to come to me, but for so many years, portia, I did not know how to do that. I would just say, okay, I'll help you, I'll do it, I'll help you. I had to realize you know what that is is. It is spiritual, emotional and financial abuse and people have a hard time accepting it. You are being abused when you cannot say no to people and they're constantly asking you to do things that are not making you happy. They are emotionally abusing you and whether or not you want to accept that or not, we can talk about that in another segment.
Speaker 1:No, I mean, I think again like you're dropping some gems here because I think that we think of sort of spiritual. Because I think that we think of sort of spiritual, emotional, we think of abuse as being the physical right, like we all understand what that means. I think we are starting to understand what emotional and financial abuse look like. But I bet there's a lot of women walking around who if you laid it out for them, they would be like Ooh dang, like that's, like that's me, I think. I don't think we're as educated on that at all as women.
Speaker 2:And I think it's really tough for us as women to look at it, because, as mothers as you know, people that guide homes we're always providing, we are always nurturing.
Speaker 1:Always, I always joke, I'm the COO of everything. Like, it's like, you know, like, and it's, it's really true, right. Like. Oftentimes, when you take mom out the picture, the house, like the house falls apart. There's a reason why the beehive collapses when the queen isn't there. The queen keeps the beehive functional when a hive collapses oftentimes. There's a lot of reasons why hives collapse, but one of the reasons is when the queen if something happens to the queen and I think the equivalent is like mom, right, when the family can collapse when mom isn't there.
Speaker 2:And that's the case for us, even in corporate. I mean, you're, you're, you're running these, these, uh, you're in directors, you're executive and executives in these major positions, you're keeping the high flowing, you know and and behind the scenes, not getting any of the credit, but making everything run everything, every credit, but making everything run.
Speaker 2:You're making everything run and you have to stop to say, you know, are these people that I'm doing this with? And let's go back to family, because this is the thing. Yes, Especially with family, whether it's sister, brother, mother, dad, it doesn't matter are they taking me for granted? You know? Am I just saying yes to them to, like you say earlier, to prevent conflict. I don't really want to argue with my sister. So, okay, yeah, you know, I don't really, even though I don't really here just take the money, or here just I'll go do it.
Speaker 1:I'll do it myself. Listen, that is yeah, I'll do it myself. Let me, if there's one thing I have worked hard to eliminate out of my own, like lexicon, it's I will do it myself.
Speaker 2:I will like I will slap myself on the face if I feel myself getting ready to say that no exactly, exactly, and because what you're, what you're teaching people is if I don't get it right, of course she'll do it sooner. She'll do it sooner or later, right?
Speaker 1:Teaching people how to like to your point. So this point that I love that you've made is you teach people how to treat you, and so that's kind of what I think. What I find a little scary about that is it's the accountability of like I'm responsible for how, how people like I don't know how I feel about that, sharice, because you know, like it makes me feel some kind of way to think I'm treating, I'm teaching people how to treat me, and yet also it feels like I have more control over it than I think I do.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and I know, when you look at it like that, you want to say no, because they do this, and that no, no, no.
Speaker 1:Exactly. I'm trying to tell you all the things that they do that I don't like, and it's why it's their fault. That's exactly where I was about to go is. Let me tell you why it's their fault and why they are trash people, why they're trash humans and why I'm victimized by that. But I'm hearing you say something different.
Speaker 2:No, no, no. First of all, you're not a victim, you're a survivor. So don't allow anyone to victimize you. It doesn't matter who it is. So the first step is to accept and acknowledge that this behavior is continuing. Because I am allowing it?
Speaker 1:Let me tell you a lot of people I know don't like to hear that, but it's very true, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah it is. I'm allowing it because people are only going to do what you allow them to do. They're not a tree and you're not a tree. I tell this to my children all the time. You're not a tree, you're not planted. You can get up and move. You can make a different decision in a split second. You can make a different decision. And if you're going a hundred miles down the road that's why they have brakes on cars you just hit the brakes, put the car in reverse, turn around and go in a different direction. And you should have the power, have the strength, to tell someone. You know what. I did do this for you last week, but I was thinking about for why I don't want to do it today.
Speaker 1:I've just aligned my values.
Speaker 2:I've identified my values and I've realized that happiness is important to me, freedom is important to me, integrity is important to me, and if I'm not being in integrity with myself, sorry sister, I can't be in integrity with you. And with that being the case, no, you can't. No, I can't do this for you. It's a hard no.
Speaker 1:It's a no for me. That is so powerful, and so I guess the thing that I'm also really struck by Charisse is there's a deeply spiritual component. Everything you're saying is very pragmatic, spiritual component. Everything you're saying is very pragmatic, right, it makes a ton of sense. But also you balance the practical and the spiritual, and I'm just curious how you bring those two worlds. How did you learn to bring those two worlds together?
Speaker 2:worlds together, and how can we do that for ourselves as well? Okay, so for me it was just a transformation of understanding what I am, not who I am. So when I came to the understanding that I am a spirit having a human experience not the other way around I'm not trying to figure out how good I am, I'm not trying to figure out my worth anymore so the realization came to me that if you have the ocean and you go out and you scoop a piece of the, put the ocean in a cup, you just have the ocean in a smaller container. You're still the ocean, you're still the ocean. So if I am, all that spirit is, I am all of the goodness. I'm already great. Everything that I have is already in me, I already possess these things.
Speaker 2:So I don't need someone outside of me giving me some good checklist for an approval to be these things. So when I came to that, I understood that I'm not my labels, I'm not my titles, I'm not the certifications that I've gotten along the way. I'm so much bigger than that. And so when I came to that realization, I understand well, it's okay to walk my own authentic journey. Then, yeah, it's okay for me to say to Portia oh, that works for you but not for me. It's okay that if you do that, but I don't have to do that to be happy, I don't have to do that to be whole, I don't have to do that to be fulfilled, that to be fulfilled. You know, I'm the type of person where if I get a good book and I have some good music in the background, on low, I'm good.
Speaker 1:I don't have to go out every weekend and do all these things. You don't need to be in the streets.
Speaker 2:I think that came from age too. I'm about to tell about age.
Speaker 1:Listen, listen. You better talk about it, because I tell people I had that moment in life and I, like, I was in the streets at some point, you know, years back. And for those of you who know me, don't don't blow up my DMS about this. I don't need to be in the streets anymore, like that's just not my thing, you know. But you know, god bless it to those of you who are still in the streets have fun, have all the fun, have all the fun and look cute doing it. And look cute doing it.
Speaker 2:How I mixed the spiritual with the practical is having and I hope this is not a fit, so what I'm about to say but having just common sense, the common sense of knowing that it is okay to be you and you are where you are and that is enough. And that is enough. And I'm not talking about stopping your growth process, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about being able to look at yourself in the mirror and and I have a two-minute mirror technique that I like to get people to do just stare at yourself for two minutes.
Speaker 1:Most people can't do it most oh gosh, this is like we're not doing tiktoks, we're not, we're not doing reels, right? This is not like you're doing an instagram reel kind of mirror thing is what I hear you saying.
Speaker 2:The mirror thing I'm talking about is standing in that mirror and look at yourself and say positive things to yourself Reinforce you, strengthen you For two minutes, set a timer. You would be surprised people who come back and say, dr Moses, I can't do it. I only last 10 minutes.
Speaker 1:I was going to say I bet you a lot of. I know many therapists do this exercise. I can imagine some people can't do it, can they?
Speaker 2:No, no, I've had someone that called me and said I only made it to 20 seconds.
Speaker 2:I didn't have things to say to myself. I didn't even know how to continue to look at myself in the mirror, and it's really deep. Myself in the mirror, and it's really deep. It can be a total awakening to realize, well, what is going on with me. When I see the goodness in everyone else, yeah, when I see myself, I see myself. Am I really seeing the reality? Am I really seeing reality? So one of the spiritual and practical things that I like to do is how are you really truly saying this? So mixing those two together is understanding. Oh so I'm just having a human experience. I'm so much bigger than these things that I am experiencing. It's not the other way around, and when you come to that, you realize that things are always working out for you. But things are always working out for you even when you don't see it.
Speaker 1:I believe this. I believe this. I believe that things always work out for me. Everything's always working out to its greatest good, greatest and highest good.
Speaker 2:I believe this. I believe that to the core of my being, that even when I cannot see it, I'm always at the right place at the right time to meet the right person to shift the trajectory of my life. And that's what I say all the time your shift is coming. It doesn't matter where you are right now. Your shift is coming. If you genuinely believe that.
Speaker 1:Amen. So I think I'm struck by a couple of things. One is how much unlearning has to happen for us to get to that point right you talked about. Like you know, I'm from California.
Speaker 1:I grew up sort of I would say I was more like a holiday churchgoer. I didn't go to church on a super regular basis, even though my parents belonged to a church. I moved to the South where, like religion is everything, people want to know what church you go to. They're inviting you to their church, everything's built around church. I moved to the South where, like, religion is everything, people want to know what church you go to. They're inviting you to their church, everything's built around church.
Speaker 1:But I felt, always felt, reject. I always rejected that. What I, what I felt was the dogmatism and the prescriptiveness of traditional organized religion and but having many friends, including my husband, who grew up at Pentecostalal right, grew up Pentecostal, it's just, it's very and so you know, listen, this is not a knock on anyone's chosen religion, but it really is about the fact that, like when we grow up in certain traditions they imprint on us very deeply and if you move away from that, there's a lot to unlearn, especially if that, if what you've learned is harmful to you, right? Not all religion is harmful, but there's some aspects that are not the best for us, and so I'm struck by how much you have to unlearn in this process.
Speaker 2:You have to unlearn a lot, because you know, being from the South, it's always been a like you say, a dogmatic thing that you're unworthy. You're just unworthy, no matter what you do. You're just unworthy. You're at the low end of the totem pole and you're always striving to prove yourself. So you have to unlearn that if you're truly all that God is and this is what this is also also indicatable, as they say that we are one then I have to unlearn all of the things that I've been taught about how bad of a human I am.
Speaker 2:You have to start there, you know, and so, starting there, it can be very difficult. You'll find yourself vacillating between the two. You know a lot. You're like I think I can do this, I think I'm working yeah, one moment, then another moment, oh, I'm not working. And so it's sort of like riding a bike yeah, you get on and you fall off, and then after a while, you kind of get it when. Okay, I've fallen off this bike quite a few times. I can ride it now. I'm going to be okay. I'm going to be okay. It's nothing that you bring to me that's going to change my mind about the way I see myself. You know, it takes time, though.
Speaker 1:And what I particularly resonate with is the spiritual being having a human experience. I think that is a really powerful reframe and I think the other reframe that you've given that I think is powerful is that everything works out for its highest good, not that it works out according to what was in our project management plan or on our planner, right? Let's just be just be clear, like we all, you know, we talked about like you want to make God laugh, talk about your plans but that those things work out. You know the way they need to and you know, in the green room, you and I were talking about just how really chaotic and uncertain things feel and I don't know if you're. You've got a number of different businesses. You've been very successful as an entrepreneur and CEO and a business owner and we talked about the fact that, like you know, I know for me, like some of my business some of my business, not a lot of it, but some of it has shifted because the political environment has changed. Right, I'm a speaker and there was actually a conference I was going to go, I was going to be one of the keynotes and that the person who was putting on this conference they'd been putting this conference on for over a decade, lost all their corporate funding like literally overnight, and they had to send out a note telling everyone hey, listen, this is not happening anymore because we don't have the funding, but we're going to regroup. And I just thought, wow, this is really happening.
Speaker 1:And so one I'm curious, as you're talking in your own business, what are you seeing? But also, how are you helping your clients sort of make sense of something that's really hard to make sense of? Let's just be clear it don't make no sense. What's happening? Let's just say it don't make no damn sense. And yet, if we ground ourselves in reality, it is happening and so we have to cope. We can't just shut it out completely, but we also can't become a victim to the constant onslaught of negativity. So how are you dealing with that for yourself and what are you saying to your clients as well?
Speaker 2:Okay, so let's address one of my businesses disaster recovery Okay.
Speaker 1:And talk about what that means, what disaster recovery means to.
Speaker 2:Disaster recovery is we assist. Assist uh states, cities, municipalities recover and rebuild that infrastructure out okay, so this would be a government contract, essentially right.
Speaker 1:Or or like a state or some kind of state contract, right state government state government contract.
Speaker 2:Okay, the current climate, what is going on?
Speaker 2:right, my car, my car and they're like oh my God, are we going to lose our funding? All of this is going on right now, and what I've been saying to individuals or women who are impacted by this, or just my clients, is going back to what we said earlier. We're going to activate the power of no, but in a different way. We're going to be very intentional and very selfish right now, and what I say to them is in the face of all of this, it has nothing to do with you, do not look at all of this as something to fear. Change is inevitable. It's the only thing that's constant in the world, and what we have to do is regroup.
Speaker 2:Look at this from is this a personal attack on me, or it's just change? Is this contrast that's coming before Contrast? Yeah, like, is it contrast coming before something great? So, where you have some people who are saying, oh my God, they're changing this, they're ruining my life, I have a Zoom I'm going to be on in a couple of days that says, oh no, we're going to look at this as a change and how are we going to shift our trajectory and still win in this climate? So it's all about tell the people how are you looking at what's going on?
Speaker 2:Are you looking at this is a deliberately a deliberate attack against me, or are you looking at what's going on? Are you looking at this as a deliberate attack against me? Or are you looking at, oh, it's just change. I've gone through so much in my life. I know how to shift with change, so it's all about perspective, and so anything that we're dealing with right now I say this to anyone do not look at it from a standpoint of fear. Nothing is greater than you. This is going to pass. Some of these things that we're dealing with, we'll look back at it and laugh, and some things we absolutely will not laugh about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm not laughing now. We're not laughing now, but I do. Well, actually, some of it is laughable, but not in a good way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was telling someone the other night. I said for the first time I actually get up and I look for what is my laugh of the day. With this climate, like what is my laugh of the day and not really don't take things too serious.
Speaker 1:Don't take it too seriously, don't take it too personally. I resonate with that and you know it's like. On the one hand, I think there's a a like. You know, for the first month or so I was just like I can't deal, let me just turn it all off. Then I went the opposite direction where I was like glued to the news and that wasn't healthy either, because I found myself, like I call it, like my reptilian brain, my monkey mind was like, really, you know, you get dysregulated by just the onslaught of bad news, and then it, you know you get dysregulated by just the onslaught of bad news, and then it, you know. But I agree I resonate so much with like it is change, change is always happening. It is not all good.
Speaker 1:I also think that I was talking to a client of mine and they're, you know, it's a public policy institute and they deal with racial and economic justice. And one of the things that I'm struck by is like when you know your history right, you know your history, we know that really. Like not without being falsely positive, right, like toxically positive incredible things happen in chaos. Things happen in chaos and it is those of us who choose to lead in and through chaos and to meet, help, meet, guide people through it and meet them on the other side of it. And so that's the framework I've chosen to be in, as opposed to like and I definitely had my woe is me.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, what is happening? Let me not be like I was all zen about it, but when I thought about it and I thought about just you know, because I read a lot and I understand, you know history somewhat it's like we have had incredible things happen, especially as Black people, but you know, I would say you know many marginalized groups as well Like we can do amazing things in adversity if we can put it in perspective. And also, what I love, what you're saying also, will, is hold the center of who are you? What do I believe? Who am I? Why am I here? What are my values? That, to me, is really powerful anchor in this time where just it just feels like crazy time. I don't know, maybe, maybe I'm just, maybe I'm talking crazy right now.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, you're not, because you have to understand that. It's deliberate. If you have a bunch of darts stalled at you, you have to focus on what am I doing right now? Yeah this is not the first time that my life has been torn to hell.
Speaker 1:You know what? This is true, isn't it?
Speaker 2:This is true, and when you look at it and say I've dealt with bigger things than this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:When you look at it, as you're a small potato compared to my power. I'm not going to allow your distractions to get me off course.
Speaker 1:To knock me.
Speaker 2:off course, I'm going to anchor myself in my truth and things are still going to work out for me.
Speaker 1:This is the message right here. This is the message.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm going to anchor myself in my truth. I think about a big ship with a big old anchor right now. That's what we need to do. We need to anchor ourselves in our truths and do not be moved and do not be moved.
Speaker 1:I get chills thinking about that because I think what if we all, collectively, like in our community, believed that right? Collectively, like in our community, believed that right? You know, it's all the everything is flipping around us, but we're like, we hold steady, we hold firm, and that to me, is just a and with the belief and I think this maybe gets at. Some of you talk a lot about manifestation too and your writings and the belief that it will work out. Is that part of the manifestation Like how you know? Again, that's one of those words, by the way.
Speaker 1:I believe deeply in manifestation. I have seen it work for me. You can't see my office, but I have a vision board. I do, and I do the old school vision board Like I don't do the digital one. I have to build mine and I and Charisse, I've been doing one for three, four years. Everything I have put on this vision board has come true. If I hadn't experienced it for myself, I would tell you you are speaking insanity, but I believe it. And so I wonder, as you, as you talk about, believe everything will work out for you. How do those who maybe are kind of newer to the thoughts around manifestation like how do you do that? Because it seems kind of woo-woo out there new age nonsense, but it is real, it's real. So how do we like for those who are just kind of tuning in and thinking like, oh, I'm kind of interested, I've heard the word, but I don't really? You know, it's not an Instagram post, it's real. What does that mean?
Speaker 2:What it means for me is really understanding what abundance really is. I love that word, yeah, yeah, abundance is more. When you think about manifestations, you think about them as a whole, not just a car, a house, money and all of that. You know what I'm saying. But when you hear that word, you hear manifestation. That's the first thing people think about. Oh, you're talking about me getting a lot of money.
Speaker 1:Right, I right this house. Yeah, it's a thing, a material thing yeah, right, no.
Speaker 2:When I'm talking about manifest manifestations and abundance, I'm talking about understanding I love. You've used this word a few times, yeah I'm talking about understanding, and if you like the word understanding, you can use that too I love interest.
Speaker 1:Now, I love it, let's, let's. I want to go with your word. I prefer it. I feel like it's a different.
Speaker 2:It has a different vibration to it so if you, if you, when I talk about it, I'm talking about understanding of the fact that nothing that I desire is truly outside of me. So when I'm talking to someone that has never heard this before and they say what are you talking about, about this abundance and manifestation thing? Do you truly believe that what you desire came from some part of the sky? It's not really real. I can't have it. No, because if someone else has it, they are no more deserving to.
Speaker 1:You gets back to the deservedness and worthiness, Gets back to the deservingness and worthiness right.
Speaker 2:You get next to the deservingness and worthiness, and that's the time that we're in right now. The time that we're in right now is not to fight, it is to build. We're in a turn right now where we shouldn't be fighting. We should really embrace abundance of what we really are and build and collaborate with those with that understanding to manifest the things that we desire you. Fighting is just a distraction. It's just a distraction Because, if you look at it from well, this has nothing to do with me.
Speaker 1:This. Just I can't even tell you, I just have these chills and there are a few things I want to just kind of maybe zero in on. So because you said something, a couple of things really profoundly. So one is like this abundance mindset which is like it's about building, it's about collaboration, finding your people out there, finding your chives out there, and building because that's the force multiplier.
Speaker 1:I also hear you saying it's about it's back to what we talked about the very beginning, which is like believing you are worthy, like you are already worthy, you don't have to earn it, and I think that is a very kind of rebellious, if you. I'm going to say it's a rebellious thought because we're living in a time right now, where everyone's telling us there's not enough of anything. There's not, we have. There's not enough of this, we got to cut this, we got to pull back that, we have to get rid of this. We're going to we're. These people are taking things away, and so your message is very rebellious in that it's the complete opposite of that which is there's. Not only is there plenty, there's more. Like you deserve it. You deserve it and, if you can believe it and you see it in others, like it's available to you, like that, to me, is incredible.
Speaker 2:I like that word that you choose, that word that you chose rebellious. It can be looked at as a rebellious mind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is because it's not status quo. Right To your point earlier, it's like maybe I'm not going to think like everybody else, I'm going to think like this is what I believe, and that, to me, is kind of rebellious, in the best sense of the word.
Speaker 2:Well, I think that distractions are deliberate because thoughts are things. That's right. If people can get you to start thinking on a certain track and thinking a certain way, they get you to crystallize realities based on what they do for you. But if you can say, but if you can keep the mindset of abundance, of I'm healthy, I'm wealthy, there's more than enough in the world.
Speaker 1:There's more than enough. I can get my share. I can get. Yeah, it's available to me.
Speaker 2:I don't have to compete with anyone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:There is no competition, there's more than enough. You can have your share, I can have mine. We can be doing the same things. We both can get rich. We don't have any competition because there's more than enough. If you can practice that mindset and maintain that vibration, all of these things, you soon fall away and you realize I was worried for nothing.
Speaker 1:That is deep. That is deep. How do people practice so? How, like, what's a practical thing that people can do to? Is it journaling? Is it, you know, daily affirmations? Is it all of those things Like what's a really you know for someone who's listening to this going like, hey, I'm okay, you've got my attention? How do I practice that? How do I start?
Speaker 2:So how do you start? Let's go back to what we were talking about, because I will have people listen to this and say, well, I've done those affirmations, they don't work. They don't work. Well, they don't work because you don't know what you are.
Speaker 1:No shortcuts, no shortcuts.
Speaker 2:Right, there's no shortcuts for this. You have to genuinely deal with how you're seeing yourself to activate this. You can't use somebody else's. Well, I'm just going to write this down because Portia told me to.
Speaker 1:No, that won't work.
Speaker 2:Your belief starts with believing in yourself.
Speaker 1:Right here, do the work first with yourself.
Speaker 2:Do the work with yourself, and what you'll find is doing that work. You will find that you are gaining confidence. You'll find that you know that. You know that you know that what you're saying is true. Everything that everybody else has been telling you about yourself is a big old fat lie.
Speaker 1:I already know, I know.
Speaker 2:And when you know this, you you release thoughts yeah that crystallize into these things and after a while, portia, you'll just start saying this is funny, this is, this is not even a, this is like a miracle, but things are happening for you, yeah, yeah. It's happening so fast that you're like wait a minute. So I would just want to encourage everyone Do not be distracted by all these things. Yeah, stay focused on what you are. Know that you're greater than all these other things that are being thrown at these darts that have been thrown at you, and really embrace abundance in all that. It is not just the material things, because I say to people all the time what are you going to do with a car when you're mentally stressed and sick?
Speaker 1:Listen.
Speaker 2:What good is the Bentley when you're mentally stressed and sick? You can't do anything.
Speaker 1:Listen, when your blood pressure is up and you're pre-diabetic and your hair's falling out and you gain 52 pounds like what does it matter?
Speaker 2:none of that matters. So when we embrace the understanding that I'm, life is happening to me, not the other way around. You're not creating anything. It's already created. Everything that you desire is already done. That's the reason why I say things are already working out for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's already in motion. It's already in motion, it's already in motion.
Speaker 2:The only thing you have to do is keep your confidence, and that's what distractions do they have? To throw you off your game. It's true, isn't it? I'm serious. They throw you off your game and then, the next thing you know, you start believing something different and all those things start manifesting in your life. So there's the lack, the poverty. Now it's our phones, it's, it's everything.
Speaker 1:And so what I take that to, what I take that to mean also, is, like, everything we allow into our heads whether it's social media, whether it's the people around us, whether it's television, whether it's anything like you, we have you got to be on guard about what you allow into your consciousness, because, like all of that, you're right. Like if you're fed a steady diet of you, ain't shit, or we're falling apart, or this country's falling apart, or these people are taking your opportunities. Eventually, you start to believe that and we essentially put that back. And I do believe thoughts become things. I tell this to my kids all the time. If every day you told yourself I'm stupid, guess what, guess what happens. If every day you tell yourself I'm no good at math or I don't do this very well, guess what happens. You make that true, and so what you're saying is so powerful, Cherisse, in terms of just like, really think, like watching our thoughts, and it's just incredible.
Speaker 1:Okay, so this is. I could literally talk to you for two more hours and you know you and I were talking about earlier. I said, you know, because we, we this was on our original recording date and I said, but you know, something tells me this is the right date and I again no accidents. Right, there's no accidents. Everything happens when it should happen. So this is the fun part, because we've been talking about some really deep thoughts. We've been having a deep conversation here. So we always like to have a little bit of fun with our guests to wrap up with our lightning round. So my first question for the lightning round for you is what is your superpower?
Speaker 2:So my superpower is invincibility. Oh, I love it so quick. I think we all should adapt that, because invincibility is about bending but not breaking. It's about having a fortified or a fortress in your head about what you are, who you are and where you're going. And if you get knocked down seven times, you just get up, dust yourself off, re-hit the reset button and go it again. We go, let's go again. We're not giving up because we know we're going to get to that goal. So invincibility.
Speaker 1:Because it's already. It's already in order. I love that. I love that. I think my last question for you is what's a motto or phrase that defines your personality or mindset?
Speaker 2:And maybe you've answered it, but like what I did already, but I want to leave it. I want to leave it with everyone because I want you to have the confidence in knowing that things are always working out for you, no matter what you're doing. So my power phrase is I'm always in the right place at the right time to meet the right person to shift the trajectory of my life. Someone I'm going to meet. I don't care if it's in a grocery store, I don't care if it's at some meeting or some event. I'm going to meet that person and we're going to collaborate and we're going to take our lives to the next level. So that's my phrase right place, right time, right place, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:Dr Charisse Mullins, you have been a gift today. I'm so grateful to you. I cannot wait for our listeners to hear this. We are going to link to all of her socials and the show notes and to her website. She's got some really great resources on their website. Please check them out. And to her website. She's got some really great resources on her website. Please check them out. And, dr M, so lovely to have you here. Thanks so much for the gift, the gift of your time, truly today. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2:I'm so grateful for the opportunity to be here.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much Thanks for listening to Ungovernable Women. Our producer and editor is Megan King. Our social media manager is Destiny Eicher. Be sure to rate, review and subscribe to our show on Apple Podcasts, spotify or wherever you listen to your pods. Your ratings help other listeners find us. You can follow and DM us on Instagram at ungovernablexwomen, and TikTok at ungovernable XWomen. See you next time.